From the wonky opening that brought you “Fuck you Star Trek fans” and “Phwooar, Princess Leia”, comes this … “Nerd culture is the product of a late capitalist conspiracy, designed to infantalize the consumer as a means of non-aggressive control.”
It has come to my attention (thank you google), that the excellent website, Io9 picked up on some controversial comments I made to the Radio Times, which can be summed up in the above headline. Now, maybe I was being a little bit trollish, I can be a bit of a Contrary Mary in interviews sometimes. When you do lots of them, you get sick of your own opinions and start espousing other people’s. Having said that, the idea of our prolonged youth is something I’ve been interested in for a very long time. It’s essentially what Spaced was about, at least in part.
One of the things that inspired Jessica and myself, all those years ago, was the unprecedented extension our generation was granted to its youth, in contrast to the previous generation, who seemed to adopt a received notion of maturity at lot sooner. The children of the 70s and 80s were the first generation, for whom it wasn’t imperative to ‘grow up’ immediately after leaving school. Why this happened is a whole other sociological discussion: a rise in the student population, progress in gender equality, the absence of world war; all these things and more contributed to this social evolution. What fascinated Jess and I was the way we utilised this time. For Tim and Daisy, not having to grow up in the way their parents did, simply meant a continuation of their childhood. For Daisy, it was the pursuit of her girlhood dreams and fantasies. For Tim, he channeled his childhood passions into his adult life, cared about them as much, invested in them, the same level of time, importance and emotion. His hobbies and interests defined who he was, rather than his professional status.
In the 18 years since we wrote Spaced, this extended adolescence has been cannily co-opted by market forces, who have identified this relatively new demographic as an incredibly lucrative wellspring of consumerist potential. Suddenly, here was an entire generation crying out for an evolved version of the things they were consuming as children. This demographic is now well and truly serviced in all facets of entertainment and the first and second childhoods have merged into a mainstream phenomenon.
Before Star Wars, the big Hollywood studios were making art movies, with morally ambiguous characters, that were thematically troubling and often dark (Travis Bickle dark, as opposed to Bruce Wayne dark)*. This was probably due in large part to the Vietnam War and the fact that a large portion of America’s young men were being forced to grow up very quickly. Images beamed back home from the conflict, were troubling and a growing protest movement forced the nation to question the action abroad. Elsewhere, feminism was still dismissed as a lunatic fringe by the patriarchal old guard, as mainstream culture actively perpetuated traditional gender roles. Star Wars was very much an antidote to the moral confusion of the war, solving the conundrum of who was good and who was evil. At the heart of the story was an ass kicking princess who must surely have empowered an entire generation of girls. It was a balm for a nation in crisis in a number of ways and such was that nation’s influence, the film became a global phenomenon.
Recent developments in popular culture were arguably predicted by the French philosopher and cultural theorist, Jean Baudrillard in his book, ‘America’, in which he talks about the infantilzation of society. Put simply, this is the idea that as a society, we are kept in a state of arrested development by dominant forces in order to keep us more pliant. We are made passionate about the things that occupied us as children as a means of drawing our attentions away from the things we really should be invested in, inequality, corruption, economic injustice etc. It makes sense that when faced with the awfulness of the world, the harsh realities that surround us, our instinct is to seek comfort, and where else were the majority of us most comfortable than our youth? A time when we were shielded from painful truths by our recreational passions, the toys we played with, the games we played, the comics we read. There was probably more discussion on Twitter about the The Force Awakens and the Batman vs Superman trailers than there was about the Nepalese earthquake or the British general election.
The ‘dumbing down’ comment came off as a huge generalisation by an A-grade asshorn. I did not mean that science fiction or fantasy are dumb, far from it. How could I say that? In the words of Han Solo, “Hey, it’s me!” In the last two weeks, I have seen two brilliant exponents of the genre. Ex Machina and Mad Max: Fury Road, both of which had my head spinning in different and wonderful ways and are both very grown up films (although Max has a youthful exuberance which is nothing’s short of joyous, thanks George Miller, 70) I’ve yet to see Tomorrowland but with Brad Bird at the helm, it cannot be anything but a hugely entertaining think piece.
I guess what I meant was, the more spectacle becomes the driving creative priority, the less thoughtful or challenging the films can become. The spectacle of Mad Max is underpinned not only multiple layers of plot and character but also by an almost lost cinematic sense of ‘how did they do that?’ The best thing art can do is make you think, make you re-evaluate the opinions you thought were yours. It’s interesting to see how a cerebral film maker like Christopher Nolan, took on Batman and made it something more adult, more challenging, chasing Frank Miller’s peerless Dark Knight into a slightly less murky world of questionable morality and violence. But even these films are ultimately driven by market forces and somebody somewhere will want to soften the edges, so that toys and lunch boxes can be sold. In that respect, Bruce Wayne’s fascistic vigilantism was never really held to account, however interesting Nolan doubtless found that idea. Did he have an abiding love of Batman or was it a means of making his kind of movie on the mainstream stage?
Fantasy in all its forms is probably the most potent of social metaphors and as such can be complex and poetic. No one could ever accuse Game of Thrones of being childish. George RR Martin clearly saw the swords and sorcery genre as a fertile means to express his musings on ambition, power and lust. Perhaps it milieu makes it more commercial though, would a straight up historical drama have lasted so long? Maybe Game of Thrones wouldn’t have been made at all ten years ago. A world without Game of Thrones?! if Baudrillard had predicted that, I probably would have dropped out of university and become a cobbler**.
The point of all this is just to get my position clear. I’m not out of the fold, my passions and preoccupations remain. Sometimes it’s good to look at the state of the union and make sure we’re getting the best we can get. On one hand it’s a wonderful thing, having what used to be fringe concerns, suddenly ruling the mainstream but at the same time, these concerns have also been monetised and marketed and the things that made them precious to us, aren’t always the primary concern (right, Star Trek TOS fans?)
Also, it’s good to ask why we like this stuff, what makes it so alluring, so discussed, so sacred. Do we channel our passion and indignation into ephemera, rather than reality? Not just science fiction and fantasy but gossip and talent shows and nostalgia and people’s arses. Is it right? Is it dangerous? Something to discuss over a game of 3D chess, perhaps.
Speaking of which I better climb aboard the old hypocropter and fly back to writing Star Trek Beyond.
In short:
- I love Science Fiction and fantasy and do not think it’s all childish.
- I do not think it is all generated by dominant forces as a direct means of control…much.
- I am still a nerd and proud.
Love and rockets,
Simon
p.s. Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan are also Stormtroopers in The Force Awakens.
*Those type of films are made today but not by big studios. Before Star Wars, SciFi and Fantasy were seen as B movie fodder, that the big studios were wary of. Alan Ladd Jnr really doesn’t get the credit he deserves for backing George Lucas.
**No disrespect to cobblers, I merely intended to allude to a profession that would not fill my days with fantasy. Not that cobblers can’t enjoy fantasy, they can. After all, some of them are magic elves who only come out at night to save a poor husband and wife from destitution. Surely a metaphor for the invisible underclass, enabling social mobility among the executive echelons of the pre war working class.
Simon Pegg
Actor/writer - Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, Paul, World's End. Also, secret agent, starship engineer and diesel weasel. GSOH. Must love dogs.
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I find this clear, concise, and well thought out. I agree completely with it and it really makes you think. I also must let my inner fanboy out here and say I loved your movie “Hector and the search for happiness.” One of the most poignant and intelligent films i’ve seen and it is now one of my top ten movies.
As an avowed nerd, I have to say that science fiction and even fantasy do us a service, even if it is infantile at times. It prepares our minds for what is to come. As 20,000 opened the door to such things as submarines and even ecology as a science, it opens our minds to possibilities. We are undoubtedly on the cusp of becoming a space faring race. Developments like the Em drive highlight this. Stem cell research, genetic engineering, artificial intelligence, as frightening as their misuse can be, are going to become necessary tools in our tool box once we make that leap. Science fiction has prepared our minds and attitudes for this step, as well as entertaining us. Yes, much of it is schlock, marketed to us to distract us and get us to fork over some cash. But even you gamers know that the skills you learn gaming, both manual and mental, are the same skills used to fly drones and how else to mine an asteroid except via drones?
Above I started to write 20,000 Leagues Beneath The Sea, but for some reason didn’t get past 20,000. My apologies.
I feel like as each year passes, I can’t help but think of this more and more:
“It makes sense that when faced with the awfulness of the world, the harsh realities that surround us, our instinct is to seek comfort, and where else were the majority of us most comfortable than our youth?”
I leave the house. I drive my car. I go to work. I go to the grocery store. I go to the gym. I deal with my daily responsibilities and obligations to the best of my ability. Basically, I do the adult thing. And yet I always catch myself feeling so surprised that I’m the one doing those things. I own a car? I’m responsible for other people? I’m expected to generate numbers? Me?
I go home at the end of the day and I retreat to all of these less-than-adult things that I love. I can’t deny that I do find comfort and enjoyment in things that, as a child, I imagined I would not be into as an adult. I find it’s easier to engross myself in a good tale from the various forms of media I consume than it is to look at the news, actually want to look at what’s going on in the world, and take it all in. And I’m completely aware of what I do.
I feel like the older I get the more I question these habits of mine. Like I should grow up. Like I should be doing something different. But then I make excuses and try to justify it. After all, it’s not hurting anyone, right? I’m a responsible, contributing member of society, so that’s got to count, right? What else could I possibly be doing anyway? And so the cycle continues. But the older I get, the less right it feels. I suppose I’ll figure it out eventually and find a happy medium where I can still enjoy some of my childish interests, but not feel like a complete piece of shit for it. But in the meantime, The Force Awakens is seven months away and two new seasons of Red Dwarf have been confirmed, and that’s really exciting.
Well put. I found myself questioning some of the things I enjoy that are pop culture, just because these days I’m curious about higher culture. I don’t seem to have this ‘anxiety’ anymore; each one gets the attention I feel like giving it, at any given time.
Continued success to you Mr Pegg. I look forward to whatever work you do as as an actor, writer, director.
This “extended childhood” really doesn’t surprise me one bit. We’re living into our 80’s and 90’s yet we’re still following a system based on us dying in our 50’s and 60’s.
We should extend our childhood. Allow us to learn more before we slag off into the depths of Cubicle Town.
That was deep. Glad I smoked before I read it. It’s always amazed me how people gave the sci fi/fantasy genre no credit. Look back at the old Flash Gordons or some of the Arther C Clarke stories and really look at what was outlandish then but is reality now. The human races capacity for imagination is incredible. Whatever we can dream of at some point becomes reality. Now that’s not only for good but also for evil unfortunately. I can’t speak for this being a form of control, I tend to see it as an escape from that control. For some of us, we escape maybe to much. or as Mr. Pegg puts it, investment. I invest and dream of what can and will be. My only hangup is dwelling on what I’ll miss after I’m gone. I enjoy your performances tremendously and now I get to enjoy your musings. Should we meet, the first pint and bag of crisps are on me.
I’ll grow up when the world does, and not before.
There is so much carry on about being responsible adults from childish politicians who think they can get away with telling the rest of us to grow up while they spend the taxpayers money on toys for themselves, that I am inclined to distrust them.
You, on the other hand, Mr Pegg have a job that many of us would kill for, and a large stack of cash to show for it…From a career that specializes in playing make believe in front of a camera for an audience of both children, and those adults who haven’t quite ossified in to cubicle minions.
I presume you will now be limiting your acting work to depressing documentaries and educational features?
No?
Then don’t bite the hand that feeds you, and not expect to get a little mauled by an audience that wants a little fantasy in the grey reality of the 21st century.
Now go lay some fantasy tracks down, Mr Pegg, this train’s got to run today… ;)
The world cannot grow up until the people who live in it do. Yet until the world “grows up first”, you (and everyone who seriously believes as you do) will refuse to do so, thus preventing the world from achieving this standard you’ve set down as a condition of you growing up. It’s quite the catch-22, isn’t it?
Mr. Pegg has an opinion. You may or may not like that opinion, and no one is forcing you to like or dislike it. But why begrudge him his right to express it in the first place? Your and similar comments are basically telling him to shut up and go back to entertaining us with the sort of mindless drivel we’ve all been force-fed by Hollywood and its foreign counterparts for decades, as though he isn’t a human being with thoughts and feelings and hopes and dreams and ambitions of his own. Is it really so troubling to think of actors and actresses having opinions, of being human?
I have consumed too many beers to read this entire post, but certainly it’s rational and agreeable. And you’re really funny. So. Yeah. All’s well that ends well, with the exception of “The World’s End”.
This post really is a bunch of nonsense. I stopped reading it right around the time he started trumpeting feminism.
Hi Simon. Please do us all proud by making an epic Star Trek film. You don’t need to copy TOS, TNG or DS9. Just make it something new, but true to Star Trek at its core. Also no more Star Wars references in Star Trek films. That is all I ask for.
Lots of time for Mr Pegg.
Don’t know what the new Star Trek is like, first one was a teen road movie in space so unaware of any furore.
Why no mention of Run Fat Boy Run in the bio? How dare you sir, I appeared in that, well short of Mr Warhol’s standard time frame for fame, but still, it is the only thing I have to crow about!
You may expect my seconds to call on you if you will first kindly supply a PO Box address? (Good article though.)
Simon,
I get it. Anything out of disproportion can be bad. Studios selling whatever people will buy will always be the name of the game.
Infantile mind control? Meh, we are past that brother. We’re all plugged into the matrix, no going back. People like to be happy as a general rule. But “have faith in humanity.” I knew about the elections and the quake.
Bottom line is you miss an even larger more beautiful thing about the interests holding people’s imaginations. Star Trek, Star Wars, the comics, fantasy, these were consumed by nerds first. People who thought “thinking” was for more than homework it was “fun.”
Simon, it is fun to learn. That’s what it means to say you’re a nerd.
I disagree too.
On the contrary of his point, then every movie Pegg has made is not worth the popcorn one had ingested while viewing it.
And with all due respect, no comic book artist should agree with him and this silly blog. Yes, I just belittled the entire focus of his blog. I’ll tell you why.
Capitalism is what drives the American economy. So Pegg would be ok if it was a socialist society and we gave out money, food and medical care out like candy on Christmas, but we don’t, we have to pay for it all, (bear with me for a moment).
Its not about government making the point of creating an infantile society, it comes from the past generations having to grow up too fast and warning the future generations about the end of the line… which is simplistically going to be called death, for sake of argument.
Any comic book artist should be grateful for this new world geek culture because it fills their wallets with green matter so they can buy their kids braces and lollypops. Please spare me and the fans the hypocrisy…. without this nerd/ geek passion there would be no comic industry.
Spectacle is the essence of life. We are attracted to things that are larger than us. To things that are beyond us. Have you ever been stuck in rubbernecking because of a severe accident? Or watch the crowd thicken on a corner obsessed with a residential building on fire?
Pegg like so many creatives (whom I adore) who have achieved a good level of success in their chosen (in childhood I’m sure) career in entertainment become fooled into believing that they are now a powerful intellect. A true intellect does not make movies, or comic books, or make rock and roll… they do research, they fight cancer and they change political policies for the good of human kind. For far too long I have seen artists be molested by their ego until they actually believe that they are the most important thing in society. Wrong. Sorry to be so crass, but wrong. You make movies. Or comic books. Or you make music. That’s all.
Don’t feel too defensive. The world would crumble without art. Its imperative that we have art in all aspects. Good art and bad art. Now, the successful artist will tell you what good art is… even if you like what is deemed bad art… they will tell you you are wrong.
Star Wars changed society because it gave so many people a chance to trip the light fantastic. To journey beyond their own boring little lives. It was a story that was told the right way. It was nothing new in its tale, only in the way it was told. And technically it revolutionized the movie industry forever.
If anyone actually thinks that government saw SW and thought it would be great to turn the American people into children, I think you’re over thinking the reality of things. It made a crap load of money. And that’s what excites the human species…. and the government machine.
There is nothing wrong with enjoying what you did in childhood, as long as you’re paying your bills and being a decent citizen.
Who wants to face real world issues…? In that case, all successful artists of all genres and industries should do only one project a year or two and spend the rest of their time and energy and creative genius to improve the world by facing the real problems still dirtying our world community.
This is nonsense. And so is art. But then again it isn’t. I just think that once creatives achieve a higher level of success they suddenly believe that they are an authority on the human condition. And no you’re not. Your ego just makes you believe you do.
Ghandi. Mother Theresa. Malcolm X. These are people who went there. They just did it. Because it needed it to be done. I never heard any of them talk about the movie industry, or any printed fiction.
Please Mr. Pegg… just make movies… make funny movies… that’s what you do. Or be like Angelina Jolie and go be a humanitarian.
Yes, examine the art. Yes, analyze the art. But let’s not fall from the soapbox because no matter how fortunate you are in your career of playing pretend… it still hurts when you hit the ground.
I don’t suppose it’s ever occurred to you that Mr. Pegg, like any other actor or actress, has a mind and opinion of his own, and while you might not like it, he has the right to express it and clarify it for those who took it in the wrong context. Is he not allowed to think or have his own opinion? That seems to be what you suggest.
I appreciated this comment.
It will be art that awakens us to see The Spectacle of the Real for what it is. http://edbrenegar.typepad.com/leading_questions/2013/05/the-spectacle-of-the-real.html. Thanks for the Baudrillard reference. Also read Guy DeBord. He gets it, too.
Dear Simon, well done. I think you gave any naysayers more credit and thought than they deserve with this response. Whoever tries to defend the entire fantasy genre has forgotten it includes the Twilight series, for one.
Science fiction, fantasy, and superhero genre fiction have always been aimed at the audience who wants a rollicking story where, to quote Blues Traveler, “the hero’s right, and nobody thinks, or expects too much”. And to that point, Simon, you’re right. It’s ‘mere’ entertainment. Pandering. Fluff.
But that has never stopped them from allegorically tackling social issues. From _Stranger in a Strange Land_ to _Star Trek: TOS_’s “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”, from _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ to _Chronicles of Narnia_, from Power Man to Wonder Woman to Northstar of Alpha Flight… whether heavy-handed or subtle, even whether intentional or merely ascribed, genre fiction has dealt with many issues of our day, or of the greater human experience, by taking them apart and reassembling them in a different context.
Just a quick mention: Just before the TOS/TMP signed off for the last (?) time in “The Undiscovered Country,” Captain Kirk closes the performance with a line from Peter Pan, which as you remember, is a story about a boy who refuses to grow up.
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You sound like Alan Moore; http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jan/21/superheroes-cultural-catastrophe-alan-moore-comics-watchmen
Whenever I hear this I try to see it from the writers view, but more often than not, it comes across as, “What I like is smart and cool, but that other nerdy stuff is stupid and childish and does not advance us, but hurts us” It seems petty, and demeaning, like Oh Star Trek is cool, but Avengers, how lame, you people unable to let go of your childish yearning for heroes.
I am a huge fan and I do not think you have any ill intention for anyone, but I have heard this before and it just feels like a George Carlin skit, as in your shit is shit, but my shit is stuff, and my stuff is important and your shit isn’t.
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I don’t look to scifi and fantasy as something that keeps me infantilized and distracted from what’s important in the world. I look to it as a momentary release from reality, so I can take a breath and gather myself before joining the world once more.
To be honest, I wish I could be distracted with scifi as dispensed by corporate control to keep me in a perpetual state of childhood. When I was a kid, scifi was hope for what I would see in the future when I grew up. More and more, I come away from reading or watching scifi with utter despair that what child me hoped to see in my lifetime will never happen. The movies that challenge the audience, spark thoughtful discussion, etc., are the worst offenders. I love them, but sometimes, I just want to watch a fun and GOOD movie with explosions that has no hidden meaning or underlying social issue because after a long day dealing with sex offenders, the last thing I want right before I sleep is to be reminded of what awaits me tomorrow.
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Certainly no outrage from me (christ, isn’t everyone tired of being outraged?).
But I do wonder at the tenability of this line of thought while being an active promulgator, participant and beneficiary of said infantilizations. Seems to me a bit of the looking the gift horse in the mouth…. I (and probably his agent) are both screamwhispering “JUST SMILE AND WAVE SIMON… SMILE AND WAVE!!!”
Sure, I totally buy Simon’s mixing it up in the course of an endless press junket. IMO, that’s the best explanation… just stray thoughts… and it’s completely valid as that. College dorm room style shootin’ the shit.
But again, considering what Pegg does for a living… very problematic if you try to hold it up as some kind of conviction or guiding principle.
And at the other end of his musings is the stuff about being grown up and dealing with real life – to which i ask, “like what?”
Were our parents BETTER for being “grown up” earlier? Are they more fulfilled? More “actualized”? Does participation in war gain you any useful insights that those who’ve experienced it wouldn’t eagerly trade away if they could?
If there’s enlightenment to that kind of growing up, there’s no evidence of it on the faces or lives of the oldsters I pass by.
All the grown up stuff seems to be endless stratigraphic layers of bullshit just dressed up in a solemn looking suit. Is POLITICS more important? Really? I suppose if the goal was just to be angry all the time….
Everybody’s a goddamn monkey and all “serious endeavors” are just the delusions of the most hostile and self important monkeys. Do we really want to get involved in these sociopathic movements?
I don’t mind Simon taking down comic book culture a peg or two… to be serious or outraged about THAT is probably the height of absurdity.
But I do disagree with the message simply because I don’t think THERE IS much better. Everything’s bullshit. Everything’s an absurdity. If you can spend your life in benign absurdities that are at least self professed bullshit… maybe that’s as much good as there can be in the world.
Simon, you can pay the bills and put food on the table.
That’s fucking grown up enough, man.
Well we all say things that do not come out right. However if your worried that movies are not making us think then maybe you should re-watch the Original Star Trek series.
Star Trek used to be a positive show to watch, showing how there was nothing wrong with equality and desegregation. All forms of equality from race, class, and gender. I think now more than ever that message needs to be told again. With all the race, gender, and sexual preference issues boiling to the surface again now would be the time to return to Roddenberry’s original philosophy. Much better than the what has been done with a distopian society plagued by lens flares.
The reboot has managed to take a meaningful philosophy and grind it down to nothing more than an action movie in space.
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“So, what;s your story about?”
“Well, it’s about these cryogenically-frozen-”
“No. No, no no. I mean, what’s your story ABOUT?”
“Aliens have-”
“No. I mean, what’s your STORY about?”
“Imagine a world where-”
“Stop. Please. What’s your STORY … _ABOUT_?”
“Ah. You mean the REAL WORLD stuff?”
“Yes! Finally — now we’re getting somewhere!”
“It’s a toyetic franchise-starter with over 50 million consumer impressions!”
“Right., then. I’m off to have lunch. Mind the store for me, will you?”
Science fiction, at its best — at its most REAL — is primarily concerned with real-world things. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it’s true.
Go back and watch the original STAR TREK. It’s not great because of warp speed and photon torpedoes and phasers and Tribbles. It’s great because it dealt with real-world issues and transformed them via metaphor into broad stories that illuminated passionate real-world themes like racism, cultural disillusionment, or the bureaucracy of war. The original TWILIGHT ZONE did this. While telling stories about nuclear bombs or tiny robots, the show was really talking about self-importance and human arrogance and the grotesque ugliness of Manifest Destiny and all kinds of other important issues. Hell, even JOE 90 touched on what were then current events in some of its stories.
They were ABOUT things.
Now — I challenge you to tell me what AGE OF ULTRON was about. Here’s the catch: you can’t talk about robots or Asgard or Hulkbuster Armor or anything like that. You have to use only real-world descriptors and terms. Go.
What? Silent? Yeah, I thought so.
And don’t start saying “It’s about the lengths people will go to for their own security and what we’re willing to sacrifice to feel safe!” Because, while the film gets some frottage osmosis from touching on those PREMISES, it makes absolutely no conclusions, not even to say “It’s a complex issue.” There’s a difference between a story starting with themes and actually exploring them. Out of all the recent cmmic book movies, WINTER SOLDIER got the closest — which is why it was lauded as more of a political thriller than a comic book movie. But it was still a comic book movie.
The reason-blame for STAR TREK falling apart as a global phenomenon has been laid at the feet of many people. But I place that reason-blame squarely on the fans, who grew less interested in sociopolitical metaphor than “What are the Jem-Hadar doing? What’s trilithium made of?” They’re now getting what they asked for out of movies that have absolutely nothing to do with anything except Vulcan exploding or not and whether Romulans deserve to survive or not. That can be fun, but it’s no foundation to build anything upon.
In summary, I say this: someone way smarter than me put it really well:
“Once upon a time, movies were sagas. Now, they’re franchises.”
Age of Ultron was full of flaws, but i think it can pass your test easily. It’s about how America fucks up the world, and how a bunch of freaks has to mend the mess their own nation has created. The origin story for Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in the film reminded me of the NATO bombings of Yugoslavia in 1999. And the parallels between Tony Stark’s obsession with world policing and the self-assumed role of the US as sentinel of the free world are evident. Blame that film for its many shortcomings, but don’t take it as a scapegoat, please.
I kinda agree with pretty much everything here although I think the important thing that was missed is that TV has become the place for the dark, morally ambiguous character and we are all better for it. Years ago we would have gotten a 2 hour movie exploring a character going from well meaning to bad but in modern TV we have a few shows that can spend hours showing the descent. Hollywood hasn’t completely stopped making those stories, they just decided to move them to a medium better suited for telling the story
Very well said, but you’re missing a big part of the picture. All of those challenging, morally ambiguous stories that aren’t being told by the major film studios anymore have moved to tv/online, because they’re much better told episodically and have become very successful. It started in the late ’90s-early ’00s with The Shield, Oz & The Wire and now we have Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, House of Cards, Boardwalk Empire, etc, etc, etc. All of which are the exact kind of story that you’re bemoaning the loss of. Instead of a case of the audience being infantalized, I would suggest that it’s simply a case of the film studios going for the easy money which, with the possible exception of a brief period in the late ’60s-early ’70s, they’ve always done and the audience finding our challenging, grown up entertainment in elsewhere.
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I think people need to start looking at movies that don’t come from Hollywood. There are incredibly challenging and complex movies coming out of Canada, France, Japan, Germany, Portugal and the UK all the time. So let’s remember there is a bigger film world out there.
I think because America is such a multi-cultural country, where English is not the first language for a portion of the population, modern movies tend to focus on the visual rather than the verbal. And many American movies since Star Wars are being made with a consideration to the international market, and again therefore tend to focus on the spectacle.
But let’s be kind to Hollywood, they have made the occasional awesome movie – Sideways, Little Miss Sunshine, Gods and Monsters, Short Cuts, Precious, Juno, Adaption, Birdman; so it’s not all bad news.
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Useful if you’re writing: Know when to use ‘me’ and ‘I’. e.g. “What fascinated Jess and I was the way….” should have been “What fascinated Jess and me….”
Good luck with ‘Beyond’.
Big fan.
Please look at the link below just trying to get some help to get a project off the ground.
http://www.igg.me/at/noblebros
Thanks,
Paul
I agree wholeheartedly. I’ve been saying this for a long time. While it’s well-known that a little nonsense is good for us, we are becoming infantalised.
I was in Tesco earlier. And they’re selling colouring books for adults.
Your lifestyle cred certainly doesn’t take a hit from your honesty with me, it raised it. Those that imagine an individual is defined by “meme-styled” moments in their life are below standard intellect, and sadly the norm. But not in the geek circles. In any case I came for the first time to say love your work, your choices, and to give respect for noticing and extending honest appraisal. Few take in mind that our thousands of years in roles firmly entrenched have in the last sixty, seventy years, scattered to the technological winds. Media of course along with its need to sell has driven its perceptions with our excess free time, and lack of self responsibility. Family structures are torn apart, relationships, respect, basic skills along with morality and self sustaining skills are null and void in the masses and completely incompetently taught in schools. Thinking is not taught, regurgitation is with corporate political school lesson plans and number generating lies of ability churning out morons while selling them the blinders to keep them from noticing they are incapable of basic abilities everyone had a mere 60 years ago. Who do you know that can tell you without blinking how to make bread? We have stretched so far out in technology we are dystopia waiting for the shoe to drop. OMG EMP!! So, yes of course many are using media and fairy tales to keep us from noticing the scare fest making people clearly dependent on nanny state and stop and frisk and cameras everywhere. Scifi has great writers pointing out obvious lacks, and honest appraisals of just how badly things will go without more education, and outrage and how those with the money alone are pushing agendas. It was just stated in the USA, if the less than one percent gave back two pennies on each of their dollars, the entire nation would double minimum wage overnight. These same individuals control energy advances, resource usage, and media and education. They like pressing the blinders on fools, so dont for an instant feel out of place pointing out the truth of things. Take care.
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I think its mostly a standard of living thing. The elite of society in any age could afford to concentrate on ‘frvilous’ things and have an ‘extended childhood’. It may be in the 70s and 80s was the first time that kind of standard of living became common place, at least in western socities.
I made your tea during Spaced post production. Out of everyone I made tea for then Nick, Jessica and yourself were the most gracious. Not Edgar though, (I jest), (no I don’t).
I have to admit Simon, I had the complete series one before anyone else in the world. My girlfriend, (now I’m very happy to say my wife), and I where the Spaced underground, I have never been that cool since.
Well done Simon.
Science-fiction, understood in its broadest possible sense, arose from the collision of two extremely different cultural strands:
On the one hand you have the Myth and Utopia tradition, which is a fictional (consciously or not) construct meant to represent an ideology, and thus becoming somewhat “congealed” by the aura it gains from its political or religious associations.
On the other you have the tradition of the novel, which if it was certainly associated with the political formation of the nation-states, was also inextricably linked with the rise of cultural consumerism.
I am sure Simon does not imagine Star Wars to be “purely” conservative and Mad Max to be “purely” subversive: their very fictional character make such work ambivalent by definition, because destined to interpretation.
Producing fiction (and science-fiction all the more, inasmuch as it departs further from the shared experienced reality) entails a willingness to sacrifice at least part of the ideological content on the altar of narration (whichever the media).
What some would ask however is whether this “non-ideological” reminder, which we may call “pure entertainment” for argument’s sake, is in and of itself, subversive or pacifying. There would certainly be po-mos to argue for the first option.
To Mr. Simon Pegg,
I sit here upon my cracked leather throne upon the marigins provided me by interestest into opinion that I write in response to your response to your own response. As a fan, I make no other reguard but than to klink two cents next a bowl you have graciasouly left out. As such, I do believe my title shall fit the percription of my criticism,
Why Its All Your Generations Fault-The Usual Millennial Response to the Past
I do believe you make some serious points about the marketization of science fiction: however, I propose that the current social atmosphere of the average audience member differs so significantly from that during your released of Spaced which, in part, you never quite rectified in your film The Worlds End, as it is the individual having put off maturity to a irreconcilable point. If I were to take an even bolder step, I would say it was your generations development of science’s importance to the individual that led to the marketization of science fiction in the contemporary present.
As it is, perhaps more than anytime in history, that the individuals need for marketable, simple but flashy science gives them a maintained sense of order in the universe. These techniques, granted developed on economic gain, are marketable because the acceptance of science as an established feature of society now directs society, not at its own individual freedom, but the destruction of individual into the genetics of their own being and their destruction by the scientifically held universal forces which seek to destroy out own being.
As another bit of my madness, here is where I critique your work as an actual filmic essay. During your era (or rather, finished during the 70’s and 80’s) was the end of the traditional understanding of human physiology, particularly as it related to gender, race, and sexual orientation (with or without the presence of narcotic influences) as well unlocking the last bits of the mind as it related to mental illness. Science had, over many previous governmental and often relligiously influenced conceptions of humanity, freed the individual from their perscribed notions and given them a fundemental understanding of human nature greater than their predeccesorss. In essence, your generation was freed from the notions ascribed to maturity as you had been
So it that I think your film, The Worlds End, bears mentioning. The whole notion of the generation freed from the notion of maturity was something I hadn’t connected before, and find it very insightful into understanding how Shawn of The Dead, Hot Fuzz, and The Worlds End all play to this notion of the generation freed from it. As you develop it, even your generation has (or had) an inviteble point which made every body mature or reject the notion of maturity all together. But here is where I feel you have somehwat changed your opionion (perhaps even as it applies to my “millenial generation) from then. As you satirically develop it, the destruction of the world by the aliens wasn’t of the world but society; in whose destruction people were provided a world from which to mature in (even if your own character is, perhaps, a bit on the reblious side of maturity).
And here, with more straws, I now bring those contemporary topics which may provide insight and, by reference, give the most conceptual basis to build my point. But it wasn’t until the beginning of that period, namely the seventies, that issues of environmental maintenance became part of social atmosphere. It is, in fact, perhaps the single global issue which science most acknowledges, no pun intended. As a result, with addition of the prevalence in modern society compared to your own, science has assuaged of a clearer doomsday than any religious text
In the past twenty years, cloning, sequencing the human genome, the possiblities of genetic modification do provide the same proof to the individual, but rather these issues found the identity in their genetic and scientifically proven humanity rather than the freedom of indviduality given your generation. Add to that the growing notions of environmental climate factors, the unconditional basis of gravity, and the higgs boson particle, is being rendered down to a singe quantifable substance which lacks any gestualt. Thus, science has given the same enlightend freedom of being, however there is even less dominion of the natural (or, in this case) scientifically universal forces which exist around them. Accepting them breaks away any notion of individuality as it revloves around development as they have previously experienced, making the very maturity developed suspect but still, none-the-less, apart the person’s being. Further, it dooms the individual to degree your own film doesn’t recognize: the pontential of “its already too late”. Science has, particuarly in its notion of geometric progression, suggests the progress being made, as we speak, cannot stop even we tried. That the world will not be able to sustain life even if we, theoretically, mature.
Great article. Apart from the bit about mad max, there was pretty much no plot or character depth.
I’m just commenting to offer my sycophantic support in the vague hope you’ll single me1 out and be my friend. I once watched a programme with you in (at least I think it was you) and it was pretty decent! Also I like robots and once drew a picture of a storm-trooper that I sent to Tony Hart (bastard never put it on the gallery though, even though the drawings from 5 year olds were frankly shit). So we’re like brothers. Keep up the good work!
A lot of ppl like, and go to, superhero/fantasy films.
A lot of ppl don’t.
There have always been dumb action films.
There have always been artsy fartsy indie films.
Personally I’d rather see Captain America 3 than My Dinner With Andre.
That’s all I have to say about that.
A great piece. Very well said and I love that P.S.
In the immortal word of Sigmund Freud
“sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”
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