From the wonky opening that brought you “Fuck you Star Trek fans” and “Phwooar, Princess Leia”, comes this … “Nerd culture is the product of a late capitalist conspiracy, designed to infantalize the consumer as a means of non-aggressive control.”
It has come to my attention (thank you google), that the excellent website, Io9 picked up on some controversial comments I made to the Radio Times, which can be summed up in the above headline. Now, maybe I was being a little bit trollish, I can be a bit of a Contrary Mary in interviews sometimes. When you do lots of them, you get sick of your own opinions and start espousing other people’s. Having said that, the idea of our prolonged youth is something I’ve been interested in for a very long time. It’s essentially what Spaced was about, at least in part.
One of the things that inspired Jessica and myself, all those years ago, was the unprecedented extension our generation was granted to its youth, in contrast to the previous generation, who seemed to adopt a received notion of maturity at lot sooner. The children of the 70s and 80s were the first generation, for whom it wasn’t imperative to ‘grow up’ immediately after leaving school. Why this happened is a whole other sociological discussion: a rise in the student population, progress in gender equality, the absence of world war; all these things and more contributed to this social evolution. What fascinated Jess and I was the way we utilised this time. For Tim and Daisy, not having to grow up in the way their parents did, simply meant a continuation of their childhood. For Daisy, it was the pursuit of her girlhood dreams and fantasies. For Tim, he channeled his childhood passions into his adult life, cared about them as much, invested in them, the same level of time, importance and emotion. His hobbies and interests defined who he was, rather than his professional status.
In the 18 years since we wrote Spaced, this extended adolescence has been cannily co-opted by market forces, who have identified this relatively new demographic as an incredibly lucrative wellspring of consumerist potential. Suddenly, here was an entire generation crying out for an evolved version of the things they were consuming as children. This demographic is now well and truly serviced in all facets of entertainment and the first and second childhoods have merged into a mainstream phenomenon.
Before Star Wars, the big Hollywood studios were making art movies, with morally ambiguous characters, that were thematically troubling and often dark (Travis Bickle dark, as opposed to Bruce Wayne dark)*. This was probably due in large part to the Vietnam War and the fact that a large portion of America’s young men were being forced to grow up very quickly. Images beamed back home from the conflict, were troubling and a growing protest movement forced the nation to question the action abroad. Elsewhere, feminism was still dismissed as a lunatic fringe by the patriarchal old guard, as mainstream culture actively perpetuated traditional gender roles. Star Wars was very much an antidote to the moral confusion of the war, solving the conundrum of who was good and who was evil. At the heart of the story was an ass kicking princess who must surely have empowered an entire generation of girls. It was a balm for a nation in crisis in a number of ways and such was that nation’s influence, the film became a global phenomenon.
Recent developments in popular culture were arguably predicted by the French philosopher and cultural theorist, Jean Baudrillard in his book, ‘America’, in which he talks about the infantilzation of society. Put simply, this is the idea that as a society, we are kept in a state of arrested development by dominant forces in order to keep us more pliant. We are made passionate about the things that occupied us as children as a means of drawing our attentions away from the things we really should be invested in, inequality, corruption, economic injustice etc. It makes sense that when faced with the awfulness of the world, the harsh realities that surround us, our instinct is to seek comfort, and where else were the majority of us most comfortable than our youth? A time when we were shielded from painful truths by our recreational passions, the toys we played with, the games we played, the comics we read. There was probably more discussion on Twitter about the The Force Awakens and the Batman vs Superman trailers than there was about the Nepalese earthquake or the British general election.
The ‘dumbing down’ comment came off as a huge generalisation by an A-grade asshorn. I did not mean that science fiction or fantasy are dumb, far from it. How could I say that? In the words of Han Solo, “Hey, it’s me!” In the last two weeks, I have seen two brilliant exponents of the genre. Ex Machina and Mad Max: Fury Road, both of which had my head spinning in different and wonderful ways and are both very grown up films (although Max has a youthful exuberance which is nothing’s short of joyous, thanks George Miller, 70) I’ve yet to see Tomorrowland but with Brad Bird at the helm, it cannot be anything but a hugely entertaining think piece.
I guess what I meant was, the more spectacle becomes the driving creative priority, the less thoughtful or challenging the films can become. The spectacle of Mad Max is underpinned not only multiple layers of plot and character but also by an almost lost cinematic sense of ‘how did they do that?’ The best thing art can do is make you think, make you re-evaluate the opinions you thought were yours. It’s interesting to see how a cerebral film maker like Christopher Nolan, took on Batman and made it something more adult, more challenging, chasing Frank Miller’s peerless Dark Knight into a slightly less murky world of questionable morality and violence. But even these films are ultimately driven by market forces and somebody somewhere will want to soften the edges, so that toys and lunch boxes can be sold. In that respect, Bruce Wayne’s fascistic vigilantism was never really held to account, however interesting Nolan doubtless found that idea. Did he have an abiding love of Batman or was it a means of making his kind of movie on the mainstream stage?
Fantasy in all its forms is probably the most potent of social metaphors and as such can be complex and poetic. No one could ever accuse Game of Thrones of being childish. George RR Martin clearly saw the swords and sorcery genre as a fertile means to express his musings on ambition, power and lust. Perhaps it milieu makes it more commercial though, would a straight up historical drama have lasted so long? Maybe Game of Thrones wouldn’t have been made at all ten years ago. A world without Game of Thrones?! if Baudrillard had predicted that, I probably would have dropped out of university and become a cobbler**.
The point of all this is just to get my position clear. I’m not out of the fold, my passions and preoccupations remain. Sometimes it’s good to look at the state of the union and make sure we’re getting the best we can get. On one hand it’s a wonderful thing, having what used to be fringe concerns, suddenly ruling the mainstream but at the same time, these concerns have also been monetised and marketed and the things that made them precious to us, aren’t always the primary concern (right, Star Trek TOS fans?)
Also, it’s good to ask why we like this stuff, what makes it so alluring, so discussed, so sacred. Do we channel our passion and indignation into ephemera, rather than reality? Not just science fiction and fantasy but gossip and talent shows and nostalgia and people’s arses. Is it right? Is it dangerous? Something to discuss over a game of 3D chess, perhaps.
Speaking of which I better climb aboard the old hypocropter and fly back to writing Star Trek Beyond.
In short:
- I love Science Fiction and fantasy and do not think it’s all childish.
- I do not think it is all generated by dominant forces as a direct means of control…much.
- I am still a nerd and proud.
Love and rockets,
Simon
p.s. Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan are also Stormtroopers in The Force Awakens.
*Those type of films are made today but not by big studios. Before Star Wars, SciFi and Fantasy were seen as B movie fodder, that the big studios were wary of. Alan Ladd Jnr really doesn’t get the credit he deserves for backing George Lucas.
**No disrespect to cobblers, I merely intended to allude to a profession that would not fill my days with fantasy. Not that cobblers can’t enjoy fantasy, they can. After all, some of them are magic elves who only come out at night to save a poor husband and wife from destitution. Surely a metaphor for the invisible underclass, enabling social mobility among the executive echelons of the pre war working class.
Simon Pegg
Actor/writer - Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, Paul, World's End. Also, secret agent, starship engineer and diesel weasel. GSOH. Must love dogs.
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Hey Simon! I don’t know if Paramount has told you, but “Star Trek Beyond” is also the name of a new series pitch I wrote last year. In fact, I bought the domain http://www.StarTrekBeyond.com to showcase the concept and pilot script! (I’m in the WGAw and have written for Trek once professionally: I wrote Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force).
Interested in discussing it? It’s registered with the Copyright Office and WGAw, and Paramount is aware of it. It may be a bit Star Trek-y, but I think Trek on TV *should* be Star Trek-y, even if the movies need to be more accessible blockbusters… :)
If I’m not in the majority, by actually wanting to be infantile …. Sorry… “infantised” (sodding productive sex) at regular intervals, in an attempt to retain what childlike magic still lingers in the deep recesses of my ever ageing psyche, then I see little hope for humanity….
Long may celebrities (proper ones, that is… None of your reality show wannabes) continue to speak and write spontaneously, in their own way and if nothing else, provoke controversy and discourse between those harbouring more brain cells than Farcebook profiles
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I love science fiction, but I do believe something is lost in a lot of today’s movies. Where’s the meaning? Where’s the thought provoking material and excellent story telling in light of the bombastic blather we see before us? The studios are more than happy to appeal to the nostalgia of those things many fans who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s, and we are letting that nostalgia cloud us for what is good story telling.
IF it is one thing science fiction can do well is tell a great story and carry a meaning, and it is all the more hollow and unsatisfying when it doesn’t. Any sci-fi geek gets this, and I can see the concern that Simon has voiced. Why be part of something when it means nothing? I believe that a movie like THX-1138, Blade Runner, or Gattaca were proposed before a major studio today that none of those movies would never make it to the big screen intact as we know them to be today.
As with the video game industry, the types of movies you mention are being made by the indie’s. And they usually do well. Someday, maybe the big studios will see and understand what’s going on there. At least, we can cross our fingers and hope.
Simon, I cant disagree with anything that you’ve said. However, having read this, I have to ask why you arent using your powers for good? You’re writing the new star trek movie… the power is in your hands. You dont have to go all 2001/Solaris on us, but the change has to be gradual, and it has to start somewhere. You have the power, good sir, and if there’s anyone I trust to do it right, it would be you. Show us how.
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Simon, I agree with your assertions in regards to how movies can reflect all facets of society. One of the driving forces in the TOS world was people latched onto Gene Rodenberrys concept of man making it out, and still having to deal with the same issues they had on earth. They solved some of them. It was done on the cheap, with a lot of bondo, duct tape and bubblegum. But they did it. The fans loved all the aspects of it, from the ships to the people. That was what made it so enduring. A lot of “sci fi” today takes the technology and thinks the best special effects means it is a good movie, but look at the last ST movie made “Nemesis”. It had glitzy effects, and a seemingly good story, but it went out off the edge of what the Trek fans lived for. It added up to “Bad guy wants to destroy world, good guys save it”. the JJ ST had the same plot, with glitzier special effects. Into Darkness broke the cardinal rule of ST and rehashed a story, and did it in an unbelievable way, so it had no credibility. “Bad guy wants to destroy everything and good guys save it”. Again. SF can be written to expouse deep social concerns, even in military SF. Look at the Honor Harrington series of novels. A more tantalizing series of movies could not be found beyond it. Yet it’s back to a no name company to try to cobble together the movie, which will fail due to a lack of glitz or compromises made for costs or “studio heads”. There is no lack of great SF material people would watch today, just a lack of common sense when adapting it. Go look at the ST Axanar project for how to do Trek right. They have a 21 minute preview that is almost all people talking, but it tells a gripping story, and will be an awesome movie. Stick with it and try to make Trek proud again.
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If you could just do one thing with the next Star Trek movie which you are writing, please..
ensure that there is a story about interesting characters.
Don’t just do a shootup, fire phasers, fire, fire, fire as with the last one.. the last one bored me to death after watching it so much I didn’t buy the bluray.
Please keep a balance between action and character story! I know it’s a movie and movies these days tend to have LOTS OF ACTION scenes..
But we need to care for the characters, and all out non stop action doesn’t really allow that (and what’s worse many won’t understand what is happening in the story).
Give us a good mix, so more people will appreciate the movie whether they are fans or not.
Just my five cents.
I know now it’s said that with Khan’s blood, nobody can die in Star Trek now :) .. hope you have a solution (way out!) for that lol (perhaps its efficiency is fading with time?)
You are right with this. But I have to disagree with one of your opinions. Babylon 5 is good, even if it is too geeky for you! ;-)
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I rather liked that Peggsy. Well written ant to the point. Kudos.
Simon Pegg will do it justice. I think he’s got what it takes to strike a balance between the rabid fan base and pleasing the producers for ticket sales. He’s in a position of ‘saving the franchise’ again it seems, much like it was for Nicholas Meyer. I hope Pegg might learn from Meyer’s approach to making “The Wrath of Kahn” as he writes Star Trek’s next script. (Reference: http://hollywonk.com/post/44804979721/nicholas-meyer-trek-podcast)
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hi Simon, i am one of your fans from china. this article is so intersting that if you can permit me to traslate it from english to chineses and put it on weibo(which is like twintter in china)
weibo is a place where gathering a lot of fans of you and star trek.
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…“Nerd culture is the product of a late capitalist conspiracy, designed to infantalize the consumer as a means of non-aggressive control.”… and everybody feels that is ofensive. That doesn´t prove the point? People taking personal that speech, isn´t that childness?
I understand you focus in the industry you are in – but the problem runs deeper then that. We are creating generations of folks who feel entilted because they live in an age of instant access to almost anything. When you look at the film industry ( which i am a small part of) people want things today. They want movies , music , jobs , promotions, money and other things they don’t always want to work for. It is hard to appreaciate all the work that goes into filming until you spen that first day on the set from 4:30 am till midnight and have to come back the next day. How the editors work on the film sometimes day and night, and all the people involved in the production. This time we live in is definatly a dumbing down time. We do need sometimes to get back to basics enjoy a good story like moneyball ( don’t get me wrong i enjoy all types of films) or a WW2 clasic like to sink the bismark or a good comedy like Kelly’s heros. Yes i do enjoy special effects but you are right the charaters and the story have to be there.
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What, no Roger Moore or Sean Connery?
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Well said Henry
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I can definitely agree with you Mr. Pegg. I and many of my friends have had similar discussion about our prolonged childhood and what motivates us to continue to embrace it. I have a job with many responsibilities along with a mortgage and bills to pay. However, I also collect and restore arcade video games from 70s and 80s. I enjoy playing them and for a brief bit of time I can forget about my adult life and mentally take myself to a period in my life when I didn’t have to worry about such things. Every time I see a Dave & Busters commercial I kick myself for not capitalizing on the opportunity of the extended childhood generation.
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Yes, we as a people in general should be more concerned about what goes on in the world around us than the schematics of the Batmobile, or who was wearing what on Rodeo Drive (for all the non-nerds out there). The problem is… there’s just so MUCH of it.
And it’s frightening. News networks today can run 24/7, with information from all over the world. Social inequality, the cost of energy (both monetarily and ecologically), disaster, and every other facet of the world can be brought into our living rooms at the touch of a button. When you look at it all, it’s overwhelming. Absolutely overwhelming. What can one person do with all of this? If you donate to help with a disaster, does the money go towards the victims or some scammer’s pocket? As someone with an anxiety disorder, I can safely say that all these thoughts come to mind, and if I overload on it, I get physically sick. So I do things to distract myself.
So, yes, people turn towards movies they don’t have to think about. Television that doesn’t give pause for concern. Because the truth of what’s going on is all around them, and so accessible that movies are a release.
Movies should be thought-provoking, while also entertaining, and Hollywood is certainly shifting away from thought-provoking. But people have always needed Dionysus (sorry, god of wine and festivals… so, yes, more or less the god of distractions). Historically and anthropologically speaking, people have always needed distractions from the world around them. Yes, it infantalizes them. Yes, it is a form of social control. But it’s been around for thousands of years (gladiator battles, anyone?).
We’re needed our black and white versions of the world for ages. Even some of the oldest stories are good versus evil, such as Odysseus vs. Medusa. Even so, a smart person can take a look at a simple story and ask questions behind it – Why was Medusa a Gordon? Why were the Emperor and Darth Vader such jerks? Where they control freaks, or were they trying to create stability any way they could? Were they actually evil? Those questions went through my head, even as a child.
Either way, Science Fiction and Fantasy are spectacular vehicles for thought-provoking movies and television. Star Trek did wonders for that (and the evolution of technology). Jules Verne and Isaac Asimov were spectacular at it as well. And Tolkien’s works contains a an interesting amount of anti-war themes. After all, anything goes in Science fiction and fantasy. Has Hollywood gone bonkers on the Special Effects without substance? Yes. Can it be turned around? Of course. It’s up to the consumers to choose that with our money. We just have to remember that we adore our glamorized Odysseus’s, our dime-novel versions of Kit Carson versus the real thing, and the Batman whose quest is just and nobody ever thinks about the fact that he’s a lunatic beating up criminals because he has anger issues. As long as the people with intelligence take a step back and realize that it’s just a catharsis, or take time to ponder different sides of the story, we’re doing well.
That being said, Nerds Rule.
My apologies on this, I realize that the initial post was made eons ago in internet time, and I am quite behind the curve, but I just saw this and couldn’t help but post – the topic has been one I’ve been arguing for a while now.
And… proof that I shouldn’t write comments at 1am… Perseus, not Odysseus. And I forgot H.G. Wells.
And I failed to note that ‘superheroes’ have been around since the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Either way, your article was very awesome! My apologies for the errors in my comments.
Great thoughts, thank you. I just wanted to add that there has been studis in psychology into this phenomenon, notably the work by James Hillman and others on the “Puer aeternus”, which literally means the eternal boy or child. there have always been people, who were affected by this, you can usually spot them very easy, old men sporting much too youthful clothes and haircuts, flying around in planes and such. le petit prince comes to mind. the problem we are facing since a few deacdes, is that there are more and more of us who abide to that archetype, and there are entire branches of capitalist economy that profit from it.
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I just had a great dream about you. (You were dressed like Gary King but you were unmarried and not a dad.) For some reason, you and a number of older Latino film stars were at my workplace in a press conference mode but my dream fast-forwarded to my being backstage and you agreed to sit down for a chat, even though I wasn’t interviewing you. You were lovely and at the end of the dream everyone else was gone and we were sitting at a table and it was time for me to leave. I asked if I could kiss you and you grinned and nodded and we had a couple of nice kisses and then I woke up smiling and I even chuckled a little. Thank you. That was fun. (By the way, please do not become a curmudgeon, for the sake of your family and friends. Life is much too short for that sort of nonsense. All men should work hard to avoid perpetuating that stereotype. It’s incredibly annoying and if no one tells you that, they’re just being polite.) You are a wonderful and talented artist and I thank you for sharing your gifts with the rest of the folks on the planet.
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Also, I loved Hector and The Search For Happiness (book and movie), and I’m very much looking forward to Absolutely Anything. Yay! Pythons, Izzard, Riggle and you!
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