Well, this has been interesting. What was initially intended as a moment of progressive affection has drawn comment and debate from the unlikeliest corners. What is heartening is that the vast majority of comments have never questioned the decision to include an LGBT character in Star Trek, just whether or not it should be existing characters or new ones. Those who have whined about the secret agenda of the liberal left, spreading ungodly perversions, through the evil mouthpiece of homosexual Hollywood, can go fuck themselves (apologies to serial masturbators if you find that offensive, we get so little support from the mainstream media).
The main thrust for those who aren’t keen on our LGBT Sulu, seems to come down to two things. Firstly, why Sulu? It’s a good point, I mean it could have been anybody: Kirk is a pansexual fun seeker; who knows why Bones got divorced? Nobody said Spock and Uhura were exclusive; Chekov is just permanently horny and let’s face it, there’s more to Scotty and Keenser than meets the eye. The fact is, we chose Sulu because of George, there was something sweet and poetic about it. Introducing a new gay character had its own set of problems, as I mentioned before, the sexuality of that character would have to be addressed immediately and pointedly and the new characters in Star Trek Beyond have enough on their plate, without stopping to give us the intimate details of their personal lives. We were concerned it might seem clumsy, tokenistic or worse, too little too late, raising and exasperated, “finally!” from those who’ve been waiting for representation for the last 50 years.
So why persist when George Takei wasn’t keen? The thinking behind embracing an existing character was that it felt as though it retroactively put right something that had long been wrong. By the time, we mentioned it to GT, the idea had taken shape, it felt good, interesting and worthy of thought and conversation. We were disappointed that George didn’t see it that way but, truth be told, Sulu Prime seemed to be missing a very important point. With galaxies of respect to the great man, this is not his Sulu. John Cho does not play a young George Takei, nor does he play the same character George Takei played in the original series. He is a different Sulu. This brings me to the second point of contention, Canon.
With the Kelvin timeline, we are not entirely beholden to existing canon, this is an alternate reality and, as such is full of new and alternate possibilities. “BUT WAIT!” I hear you brilliant and beautiful super Trekkies cry, “Canon tells us, Hikaru Sulu was born before the Kelvin incident, so how could his fundamental humanity be altered? Well, the explanation comes down to something very Star Treky; theoretical, quantum physics and the less than simple fact that time is not linear. Sure, we experience time as a contiguous series of cascading events but perception and reality aren’t always the same thing. Spock’s incursion from the Prime Universe created a multidimensional reality shift. The rift in space/time created an entirely new reality in all directions, top to bottom, from the Big Bang to the end of everything. As such this reality was, is and always will be subtly different from the Prime Universe. I don’t believe for one second that Gene Roddenberry wouldn’t have loved the idea of an alternate reality (Mirror, Mirror anyone?). This means, and this is absolutely key, the Kelvin universe can evolve and change in ways that don’t necessarily have to follow the Prime Universe at any point in history, before or after the events of Star Trek ‘09, it can mutate and subvert, it is a playground for the new and the progressive and I know in my heart, that Gene Roddenberry would be proud of us for keeping his ideals alive. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, this was his dream, that is our dream, it should be everybody’s.
Ultimately, if we love Star Trek, we are all on the same page, we all want Gene’s idea of a tolerant inclusive, diplomatic and loving Universe to become a reality. For those who have joined this debate in the spirit of discussion and forward momentum, it’s been a pleasure to see your reactions. For those who have seen it as an opportunity to sling abuse, or be rude and presumptuous, please take a long hard look in the mirror and remember we are discussing the personal details of a fictional spaceman. In the words of Martin Blank, who are you mad at? Because it’s not me.
I am so excited for you all to see Star Trek Beyond, whether you’re a 50 year veteran or this is your first time around. We made it with love and we made it for everyone.
LLAP
SP
Simon Pegg
Actor/writer - Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, Paul, World's End. Also, secret agent, starship engineer and diesel weasel. GSOH. Must love dogs.
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I still think it’s a wholly unnecessary addition, and feel like it rings too much of “look this guy was gay all along”. Yes the LGBT community would like more representation, but we’re talking about existing characters here, so the last thing anyone wants is for representation through meddling as it can feel forced. So does a lot of inclusion of course, where a guy kissing another guy becomes a tick-box to prove gay credentials, rather than a natural part of the story development; the best gay characters don’t rub your face in it or cause scandal, they’re just there and feel like they’re meant to be there, no-one wants to be represented through token-black-guy syndrome.
I’ll reserve final judgement until I’ve seen the film of course, but I’m concerned that the way this fits into the alternate timeline sets a poor precedent; after all this isn’t a “proper” reboot, it’s portrayed as an alternate timeline triggered by Nero. This means that these are supposed to be exactly the same characters that were in the original series, so if Sulu was straight in one timeline, and is gay in this one, then that suggests that canonically his sexuality is environmental which I find an uncomfortable implication; one I’m sure is accidental but still.
I was the first to defend you guys and I love and approve what you did with Sulu. I have nothing to say against that and I don’t even think it contradicts canon. It seems people forget that ‘B’ in the LGBT, btw.
That said, I respect Takei too and it makes me feel uncomfortable to see a gay man of color being told he is wrong in his feelings (not really by the cast but that seems to be the reaction of many fans) when it seems you guys were the ones who asked for his input, to begin with.
We have to take a step back, IMO, and we can’t be angry with George just because his reaction is not the one we, maybe, took for granted and he isn’t feeling thankful for the homage. This just proves how complex some things are.
One point: I’m glad you guys talk about the Kelvin timeline being AU now and I agree with the whole reasoning. But the thing is, honestly it seemed to me that for months you guys are kind of glossing over this being an alternate reality and the changes made by JJ&co, and you keep talking about this having to be like tos and how to restore the character dynamics like they were in tos e.g., pushing to have kirk/spock/bones only even if JJ made a Kirk/UHURA/Spock trio; pretending that Spock and Mccoy have the same ‘roles’ (eg the whole angel devil at Kirk’s side), in spite of these movies really nor having that id-ego-superego thing with the characters because Kirk is the heart and the one clashing with Spock’s logic too, and Spock (that JJ&co made an equal protagonist with Kirk so he isn’t just kirk’s friend) is not just cold logic and at times, he has more heart than Kirk and Bones combined.
For months, I never read any of you acknowledge some of JJ’s modern changes like elevating Uhura at the original trio level, or making Spock/Uhura canon (that is interracial thus representation for many fans who are poc, especially women of color who are never portrayed as love interests. The fact she is black made it controversial for some fans and Orci himself had to defend Uhura when he talked with some fans and read them saying bigoted things about her and her actress). That was a relationship that maybe Roddenberry himself set up in the series and wanted to explore, but at the time the forced Kirk/Uhura kiss was the most progressive trek could get. Point is, it really was BIG for JJ&co to do what they did with Uhura and it meant a lot to many people. It rubs me a bit in the wrong way that the ONE time you are aknoveledging a meaningful thing JJ did with these characters is to essentially say that maybe they don’t have a serious exclusive relationship with each other in spite of the movies portraying them like that? (*the whole dynamic about pon farr as well as other things in canon might give a clue about the fact vulcans are not too inclined to share their mate, lol!) I don’t get how it is really necessary to say that in order to defend the choice to make Sulu lgbt.
You making a joke that everyone is gay is undermining the point and what you did with Sulu a bit, tbh. That said, I do get what you mean. I think in the trek reality some things are moot points anyway because no one is going to care about some things. This doesn’t mean that straight people don’t exist, just that it wouldn’t be a point or something the characters think about or define themselves with. Just like no one should care about humans dating aliens. When Kirk saw Spock kissing Uhura, for example, hopefully he wasn’t surprised because of some prejudice about her, a human, dating a Vulcan, but rather his comical reaction was due to him being taken aback by the fact that a seemingly cold dude like Spock does have a loving girlfriend who is the same woman he was interested into himself. The surprise for him (and the audience) was discovering that the man loves and has a private life, the race or gender of his significant other was not even a point, or shouldn’t be.
Discovering that Sulu has a male partner and family might have the same comical effect on his friends just because he maybe never talks about his private life and they see him all business about his job; they wouldn’t be surprised because his partner is not a girl, but rather that he has a private life, to begin with. And we should feel the same, we should simply be happy that Sulu has something outside of his job because, really, if there was something original trek failed about maybe was ending it all with all the characters being too defined by their job and them seemingly being never really allowed to have personal lives too. We should find it healthy that they don’t, that this cool job they have is not their whole life. It’s not off topic or irrelevant, it just makes the characters more real.
Just my two cents. (english is not my main language)
Wait, so that means the Kelvin timeline can be altered prior to the events resulting from Spock’s timetravel… What does that mean for the events in ST : Enterprise ?
Considering that fact that you are a white male, you failed to realize another monumental issue that has plagued male Asian-American actors for quite some time now.
Asian-American actors have been emasculated in Hollywood media. They are rarely seen as a leading man who can get the girl. They are mostly regulated to martial arts, bad guy, comedy, nerd or some foreign speaker with a horrible accent. It is rare to see an Asian male who can be the “leading man.” Someone sexy, strong, masculine and desirable by women.
Another way of emasculating a potentially strong Asian male character would be simply to make them gay.
Am I against homosexuals or gays? Absolutely not! But why not make one of the main white male characters gay?? Why lump the gay/asian minority together and in doing so, you obscure the potential to lift up an underrepresented minority (Asian) and overshadow it with the gay label.
I’m assuming that this did not cross your mind or even appear on your radar. Which is not surprising. Talk to any Asian-American actor or actress and they will tell you horrifying stories of the racist stereotypes and typecasting they are subjected to. Sexy asian female stereotype anyone? It’s not just about sexual preference. Race has a bigger part to play than you may realize.
My only comment is this: – only one LGBT in the whole fucking Universe???!! (Prime or otherwise). Well whoop-di-doo. A tad late don’t ya think?
You are a wonderful human being Mr Pegg. Not that I needed an explanation, but you put it so well that now I have the words to talk to other people about queer Sulu without stumbling so much.
LLAP!
I was so happy about gaysulu idea when i first got the news. then i fell in love with Sulu’s husband&daughter scene. ‘new star trek is doing some equality, diversity, and human rights? wow! finally!’ but after reading your writings and watching other Paramount’s fan event i started to have a doubt it instantly. you seem to have no respect for Takei and other original fans. and, it seems, they made it up urgently for recent events.
you’re trying to make points but it only put me in doubts. you know, claiming diversity after whitewashing Khan is very awkward.
but i hopes it looks good as you said. really.
Wow telling people to go **** off how mature and professional. Guess you’re rich enough that you don’t need my money.
Player one has entered the room.
Mr Pegg,
You can’t please everyone all of the time, what can you do? Go to the pub, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over.
Or on a sensible note, it has all been done. If you are happy with the end result and it hasn’t p*ssed too many people off, well then hey! Enjoy it, as I’m sure the rest of us folk will.
All the best to you and the gallant cast and crew.
Jim Neighbors playing a Marine. George Takei playing a StarShip Officer. why in the heck must their sexuality ‘in the character portrayed’ even be an issue, much less a bit of fluff for a story line, circa 2016?
I feel (like some others) that it’s a 50-year-old ‘outing’ of George Takei. Bad Form, in my opinion. The character is not the man, the man is not the character. Crossing the streams is bad, there’s no Venn Diagram available that’s meaningful.
Actually, it is you that should take a look in the mirror.
The arrogance to lecture George Takei (a man who felt he had to stay in the closet until he was elderly) about the meaning of Star Trek?! This whole thing is a patently snide attempt to draw attention to this obviously god awful film you have written.
Making Sulu gay is INCREDIBLY condescending. “Hey, Mr. Takei! Yo dawg, we heard you like dicks, so we pimped your Sulus dick with some more dicks cause we heard you like dick!”
I’m a liberal guy and at my wits end with empty headed morons like you, Mr. Pegg. You don’t have a thought in your head it would seem that you didn’t see someone else say on Buzzfeed or some similarly worthless clickbait site.
You make parody films, and have clearly made another one.
here here
Let’s not forget that Sulu had a daughter in the non-Kelvin universe…
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Hikaru_Sulu
I suppose that there can’t be ugly or fat people in the future even though there are LGBT folks…
Mr. Pegg,
Please quit trying to justify your “warping” of the timeline in an effort to please 5% of the population and social pressure.
I’m not totally satisfied by the reality shift explanation; up until this point, the assumption could be that this was a time travel story, not a full reboot. Now there is fundamentally no difference between this alternative universe and any other reworking of a story.
Does that matter? Well lets look at the storytelling constraints that exist with a reboot vs a time travel story.
In the time travel story, every deviation from a previous cause of events is automatically meaningful, something has changed because of the events we saw. Every new film increases the significance of the events of the “first” film, because it suggests that events have changed because of events that the main characters were intimately involved with.
It doesn’t need to directly flow from their decisions, as Nero’s appearance and actions could have a lot of knock on effects, including into events occurring in their early childhoods, but it is more interesting if it does.
You can write stories that to those unfamiliar with the original timeline seem to be entirely self contained, but which alter details of the past in ways that validate the cannon knowledge of the hardcore fans.
That’s basically free content, you can speak to one set of fans through parallelism and reference while also having a surface level that everyone can enjoy.
Obviously that kind of implication isn’t working so well here, “time travel changed his sexuality” etc. although I don’t think there would be a problem even with that story idea, because there’s interesting discussions that you can have there too. The core problem is that George Takai didn’t agree. In the absence of the real world actor’s blessing, especially if the character’s sexuality is based on his, “time travel changed his sexuality” changes from something that has weird background implications, but is essentially harmless, into an impression of external narrative necessities imposing themselves on a character in contradiction to their nature, a classic marker of bad writing, even if it is actually well written. The idea of the sexuality being somehow imposed on the actor carries across to the character. Which is a shame.
I can’t see much way out of it now, you will probably have to ditch the “ponder how this is different to the original timeline and how we ended up there” potential because of the way that would imply things about this event. Maybe you can get back to it in like 10 years or something though, when this specific event has worked itself out, possibly in time for a big complicated overlap story involving Q, a Picard looking inexplicably exactly the same, and probably some voyager and enterprise types involved with time police.
Your clarification is worth… one quarter portion.
The one thing I have discovered during my 40 years of Star Trek fandom is just how much like a religion it can be for fans. I have met a diverse group of fans at Star Trek conventions over the years and I was surprised how many of them were Social Conservative Christians who stood in opposition everything that Gene Roddenberry’s Secular Humanist philosophy championed on Star Trek. I lost friends in the Star Trek community when I supported Obama in 2008. They warned me that Obama was a Kenyan Muslim atheist who planned to put all good straight white Christians into FEMA camps. I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised to see the vitriol leveled at Simon Pegg and Star Trek Beyond for introducing the fact that Sulu is Gay or Bi in the Kelvin universe. Obviously, these so-called Star Trek fans are attracted to the franchise for reasons I cannot fathom as I cannot disconnect the Progressive Philosophy of the franchise from the entertainment aspect. I guess it is like the Christian community which has a diverse range of views on who Christ was and on the status of the Bible as Holy Writ. We have @ 3000 denominations of Christianity in the world all claiming to be the One True Way. It looks like we have several different denominations of Star Trek fans all claiming to follow the original intent of The Great Bird of the Galaxy but who actually are just projecting their wants and needs onto a man they never knew except through myth stories and the episodes of TOS and TNG. Based on Roddenberry’s own writings and speeches, he was a Secular Humanist who believed that humankind would progress past the petty prejudices of our current era. How some fans can get Ayn Rand or St. Paul out of Star Trek is a mystery. Kudos to Simon Pegg for returning Star Trek to its TOS roots with this inclusive message of love, tolerance and understanding. It is the essence of IDIC that makes Star Trek so different from the other sci-fi franchises out there that have a dystopian view of humanity’s future. I can’t wait to see Star Trek Beyond. I have a feeling it is going to be the best movie Trek since First Contact. Boldly Go!
I love how you say that “we chose Sulu because of George” but then didn’t think of ask his opinion about it until it was all over and done with, with no possibility of change. “You’re going to get our homage whether you like it or not” is a funny way of showing your esteem for someone.
Also, if you wanted Sulu to have a relationship with a man without cancelling his TOS persona completely, why not just have him bi- or pansexual? Cover all bases, problem solved.
Dear Mr.Pegg,
with you involved I have complete faith,
that the (nu-trek) universe will unfold as it should,
to paraphrase Spock prime.
Remember: Logic is just the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it
– vision is also required.
Speaking of which… I had one the other day:
You, Mr.Pegg, and the rest of the ‘Cornetto-Gang’, after a bit of
collective soul searching, go ahead and finally give us the
definitive (i.e. british) take on
‘Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency’.
No doubt, there will be much rejoicing all over the soon bereft and
rather sad fragments of Europe.
But regardless – it’s always a joy to watch You in anything.
My best wishes to You and Your family.
Your work is greatly appreciated.
Rick Moore
First: Who cares. Sulu has always been a bit gayish. Again, who cares.
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You are amazing. I look at everything you’ve done in your career and I’m in awe. You are seriously my inspiration to be better at the things I love doing. And now you’re part of a franchise that I’ve loved for more than 20 years of my life, and not only have you absolutely killed it as one of the most iconic characters in sci-fi, but you’ve had a hand in making that universe better, more inclusive, and even closer to Gene’s original vision than ever. I may not know you, I understand that you’re just a guy, just a flawed human like the rest of us, but you are my hero. Thank you so much for what you’ve done. Love you.
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Social Justice Warrior ruin everything.
Another franchise bites the dust.
Simon, I completely disagree – and it’s from a different perspective.
For the only major Asian character on the ST canon, making Sulu LGBT is a complete slap in the face on Asians. It continues the major undercurrent that Asian males to be non-threatening to whites in Hollywood movies. They never should get the girl, white or Asian.
Why didn’t you make Kirk LGBT ? Or Scotty ? You want to shake up the canon ?
Go and make one of the white characters go LGBT.
Mr. Pegg with all the respect in the world, made a mistake and should accept it and not walk justified by the damage he did, because the truth did much damage to one of the best franchises to turn Gay Mr Zulu in a real mockery all followers of the saga.
“Those who have whined about the secret agenda of the liberal left, spreading ungodly perversions, through the evil mouthpiece of homosexual Hollywood, can go fuck themselves”
No, please go fuck yourself. You successfully polluted a franchise that I have loved since childhood, with the filth of homosexuality. Congratulations, you’re a fucking asshole. So, really, please go fuck yourself…
Thank you, Simon.
Really thank you.
For this explanation.
For your dedicated care of the script and for all the trek you just put inside.
It really reaches the hearth.
My hearth.
I can surely tell that your choices are very well thought, to me.
And the result is … well … as someone stated earlier … the Sistine Chapel of the trek movie history.
I cried twice. And I’m 35.
I thought I could not do that again and then … I found what I was looking for for the 50th anniversary of something that changed my life.
Thanks, Simon.
Really.
You’re an amazing and talented artist.
Godspeed for your life, as an artist.
You deserve it.
Cheers.
I think the whole premise that Sulu was born before Nero arrived is wrong. Pegg was likely misled by Sulu’s wikipedia article which until recently said that Sulu was born in 2230, which would be before Nero’s arrival (and Kirk’s birth) in 2233. The wikipedia page has since been edited, but you can see how the page looked on July 10 at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hikaru_Sulu&oldid=729144238 — in this older version of the page Sulu was said to have been born June 24 2230, but the reference given is to a book from 1980 called “The U.S.S. Enterprise Officer’s Manual” which was actually written by a fan named Geoffrey Mandel, who since became a production artist for Trek shows and movies but at the time had no official connection to the show. The book is available online at http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/USS-Enterprise-Officers-Manual.php and you can see that it has some other dates that definitely conflict with canon, like putting Kirk’s birth in the year 2229. Also, Sulu’s page on the Star Trek wiki “Memory Alpha” mentions that the book “Star Trek Chronology” conjecture that Sulu was born in 2237, so that’s probably as close to an official date as we’re going to get since that book was written by TNG technical consultant Michael Okuda along with his wife Denise Okuda, and Okuda (along with Rick Sternbach) was largely in charge of making sure writers didn’t mess up on their Trek continuity or treknobabble.
Just saw Beyond and I’m torn, sir Simon. Not about Sulu or any of the alternate universe concerns, but about “canon” from another perspective, and one that is equally at the heart of the entire ST universe: looking deeply, critically, and often with a good deal of humor at human issues. I really loved the film, found it funny, and the touch backs to the old characters was moving. What this one faultered on was something that the ST series has been famous for: up-ending moral and cultural certitude. And here I am speaking about what seemed to me to be the important thread in the film: the struggle for identity and how we can lose ourselves when our world no longer contains the familiar to stabilize our sense of self. I know that modern movie-making tends to amp up the action, often sacrificing intimacy and reflection. I missed the mirror in this film; I felt like Kirk’s and Krall’s story are so important, that Krall’s was cautionary to Kirk’s own feelings of loss and alienation. I wanted there to be more of that in the film; that felt like the heart and soul of what the story was about… but it seemed rushed to explanation and nearly glossed over at the end. I just wanted there to be more reflection. It’s a monumental film with amazing effects, sterling acting, and tight story and editing. Thank you for giving me a wonderful, wild ride through the galaxy!
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The next Star Trek film will be a time travel film with Kirk meeting his father the film can
start in kelvin timeline with the new enterprise-a and at end off the when Kirk s father returns to his time history changes so there was no Nero , Vulcan was never destroyed
and spook and uhura never dated history has been changed and film ends in prime timeline with a prime enterprise. With hints that there my be a few small and few big changes to prime universe because off it. And they have no memory of kelvin timeline .
Chekhov is on special assignment in both timelines and jaylah has replaced him on the bridge in both timelines.
I seemed to be too wrapped up in the wonder of the movie to even notice the issue of this discussion. I had to watch more than once to notice. I love the subtle differences of the new timeline. I am not sure I would watch otherwise. I would like to see more of Scotty!
Simon,
Thank you for explaining; however, I believe anyone in a twist over this needs to move from their parent’s basement, immediately. This is freaking entertainment, and I thank you, Simon, for entertaining me both on screen, and in this entry.
As for GT… I love(d) George, and Brad too. However, they seem to have sold their souls (or maybe soles) for click-bait posts. They were cool, but are now Internet whores. With that, GT has lost his right to bitch about anything.
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You wonder how Donald Trump got elected. Well here’s how. We’re sick of your shit. There’s a whole shit load of people tired of having to view what you sick fucks want to make normal. Rather than jump up and down and protest it, we just sit back and ignore your stupidity. And without advertising dollars you and your nonsense go away. We have the money Sorry about your luck cunt.
Simon Pegg made the worst ST film I have ever seen.